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FamiTracker > General > FamiTracker Talk > I have here a contest. Owner: kinkinkijkin New post
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Posted: 2010-09-11 21:45  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 23:49) Reply | Quote
kinkinkijkin

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#9459
It was made in 0.35.


EDIT: Oops, put 3.35 there instead of 0.35.

RE: I have here a contest. Posted: 2010-09-11 21:47 Reply | Quote
nicetas_c



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#9460
Instruments 01, 09 and 0A are unused, so your entry only uses 0E instruments.
kinkinkijkin wrote:
You must:
use at least 0F instruments.

Resubmit!

Posted: 2010-09-11 21:48  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 21:57) Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#9461
And if kinkinkijkin made it in 0.3.5, it means I should still be able to open the file, even in 0.3.0.

I also just tried opening it with 0.3.5 & still no luck.

Can you compile an NSF, please? Either that or redo his song & resubmit it (like nicetas_c said).

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Posted: 2010-09-11 21:49  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 21:52) Reply | Quote
nicetas_c



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#9462
Files created with 0.3.5. stable SHOULD be backwards compatible up to 0.2.7. given no now features are used.

However, there might just be some issues I do not know of, maybe unsupported sequence data?


EDIT: Ignore it, his entry uses the FDS chip.

EDIT2: I am able to open the file in all three 0.3.6. betas...

Posted: 2010-09-11 21:53  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 21:58) Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#9463
That explains my problem with FamiTracker 0.3.0, but not for 0.3.5.

I'll try it in the latest beta.

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Posted: 2010-09-11 22:00  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 22:01) Reply | Quote
nicetas_c



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#9464
Oh no.

It seems that NSFs do not like low modulation depths!

His FDS instrument uses the preset triangle wave, the preset vibrato modulation and a modulation depth of 1.

So yeah, exporting an NSF is not going to help in this case.


Attachments:
oops.nsf (6 Kb)
oops.ftm (1 Kb)
Posted: 2010-09-11 22:09  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 23:22) Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#9465
Actually, it depends on the NSF driver that your player uses.

The NSF you posted actually works as intended in NSFLive & VirtuaNSF, but it falters in Nestopia, FlashNSF & NotSo Fatso. It seems like JSR's NSF driver is more refined than Blargg's base NSF driver (which is what many players & emulators use).

And I tried 0.3.6 beta 3; it worked with that FDS module! I wonder why it crashed 0.3.5, though. Anyways, since kinkinkijkin only used 14 instruments out of the 17 he created, he technically broke his own rule (even though his song sounds very decent). My only recommendations would be to use a volume fade in the square channels instead of a note stop (to make the squares flow more smoothly).

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Posted: 2010-09-11 22:15  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 22:15) Reply | Quote
nicetas_c



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#9466
Good, both NSFLive and VirtuaNSF do not work. VirtuaNSF gives the result most other players give (slower, detuned B-2/C#3), while NSFLive gives another result (quicker, detuned C-3/C#3).

Why must performance vary between machines, no one will really know...

Posted: 2010-09-11 23:18  (Last Edited: 2010-09-11 23:25) Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#9468
Well, we all know that there is no accurate way to emulate hardware from within a software environment. I personally think that the only way to accurately simulate the original hardware would be to find a die cast of the 2A03 (& all other chips) along with the original specs & schematics to try & rebuild the machine in software.

The sound drivers available to this day & age are programmed by different people who have researched the workings of the NES in different ways (mainly through physical testing of the finished product on a small number of test points & the use of non-reliable sources; sources from 3rd parties or sources that only relate to one aspect of a chip's functionality, contributed by others in the scene).

I have a schematic booklet of an NES console, but it states that it's a reverse-engineered schematic (& is, therefore, not completely reliable). All the sources we have on the 2A03's opcodes & operands are based on Rockwell 6502 documentation, yet we know that the 6502 component of the 2A03 behaves differently than a true 6502 (partly due to the audio generator component). We know through physical testing at the output of the console that each audio wave is generated as such, but we don't take into account any environmental effects on the output as the intelligence signal passes through amplifiers or capacitive components (explaining why the original hardware's triangle wave is more of a shark's fin than that of an emulated system's triangle wave).

It all depends on how each programmer goes about their research & testing (& what platform they're programming on with respect to this). And with each different programmer using existing documentation that's been proven less than 100% reliable, I'd definitely expect to see no unified method of accurately emulating the system.

But enough with my derailing this thread; let's get back to the contest!

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Posted: 2010-09-11 23:54 Reply | Quote
kinkinkijkin

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#9472
I edited it, renamed it, and now it sounds better and isn't all flute.


Attachments:
bonustown.ftm (17 Kb)
Posted: 2010-09-12 01:07 Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#9479
That's much better; now, you're using all instruments except for 0A, bringing your total from 14 instruments in use to 16 (making it legit). But, you also have the rule:

kinkinkijkin wrote:
use every single instrument.


So, it's safe for you to delete instrument 0A.

Anyways, I had a look at your song & decided to add some volume control with Axx effects. Nothing special; a slow, simple fade-out with A01 & an ultra-rapid hade-in with AF0 (to bring the volume back to normal).

Worked on with FamiTracker 0.3.6 Beta 3.

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Attachments:
bonustown.ftm (12 Kb)
Posted: 2010-09-12 03:02  (Last Edited: 2010-09-12 03:05) Reply | Quote
kinkinkijkin

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#9481
I DID delete 0A.

EDIT: You messed up part of the song.

Posted: 2010-09-12 04:01 Reply | Quote
TechEmporium

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#9483
I didn't know you didn't like the idea of a volume fade. Ah, well; it's your composition anyways.

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Posted: 2010-09-12 04:11 Reply | Quote
kinkinkijkin

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#9484
I only needed the volume fade in one place. And it already was there.

Posted: 2010-09-12 07:24 Reply | Quote
nicetas_c



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#9495
TechEmporium wrote:
Well, we all know that there is no accurate way to emulate hardware from within a software environment. I personally think that the only way to accurately simulate the original hardware would be to find a die cast of the 2A03 (& all other chips) along with the original specs & schematics to try & rebuild the machine in software.

The sound drivers available to this day & age are programmed by different people who have researched the workings of the NES in different ways (mainly through physical testing of the finished product on a small number of test points & the use of non-reliable sources; sources from 3rd parties or sources that only relate to one aspect of a chip's functionality, contributed by others in the scene).

I have a schematic booklet of an NES console, but it states that it's a reverse-engineered schematic (& is, therefore, not completely reliable). All the sources we have on the 2A03's opcodes & operands are based on Rockwell 6502 documentation, yet we know that the 6502 component of the 2A03 behaves differently than a true 6502 (partly due to the audio generator component). We know through physical testing at the output of the console that each audio wave is generated as such, but we don't take into account any environmental effects on the output as the intelligence signal passes through amplifiers or capacitive components (explaining why the original hardware's triangle wave is more of a shark's fin than that of an emulated system's triangle wave).

It all depends on how each programmer goes about their research & testing (& what platform they're programming on with respect to this). And with each different programmer using existing documentation that's been proven less than 100% reliable, I'd definitely expect to see no unified method of accurately emulating the system.

No, I mean FamiTracker exports the incorrect modulation while all NSF players emulate the wrong modulation.

However I still have to check.

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