Fx3, could you give me time / pattern #'s of what needs to be fixed with the boss? The Boss theme was mostly modeled after the MP3, however I'm designing these songs after the Wii versions of the songs (which there were many differences from the sound track), and not the original Megaman 2 versions, so yeah. Fine little things like pitch variations and lack of vibrato are based around MM9's usage.
banshaku is correct about vibrato, Fami's use of vibrato in pattern is very bad.. it raises pitch whenever used..that's why I have vibrato instrumentation, I may have to create more instruments but what's wrong with the menu theme?
All of that being said, I can't hear anything wrong with the main menu theme other than the triangle slides not sounding the same, but as I said they were modeled after MM9's and not 2's.. here's a comparison MP3 (link at bottom)
First = MM9 Wii's
Second = My Remake (I slightly updated it before writing this response)
Third = MM2's <- Notice how the slides in MM9's don't match this one?
What tweaks of soundeffects did you think needed to be done? It's also important that you listen to the sound effects in the NSF, and not the FTM, as famitracker isn't fast enough to accurately represent the way they sound from the NSF. Things like the "teleportation" sound effect won't sound right in Fami, but sound perfect in the NSF.
Everyone else: I'm making the slight fixes on Plugman as per RushJet's suggestions, and looking at remakes for Concrete (banshaku, I think I'm gonna start over from scratch.. It's the only way I can make sure I know every part of the mod incase I need to make adjustments).. I'm also looking at Jewel Man's.. Maze of Death will be tricky in FamiTracker due to lack of pattern repeat commands..not to mention the end of the song with all those "fluttering" effects will literally make me cry. At least, the S3M made me cry.
I struggled with the lack of pattern repeat command as well when I tried making Maze of Death. If you look at the ftm I submitted before I just added the pattern over and over again where it was needed, but that was kind of tricky and it never sounded quite right. I had to really pay attention to what I was doing. I was getting so frustrated and tired from all the concentration needed to just copy the song that I have not picked it up again in two months. Ugh, like I said before I would be happy to see a full remake but I won't sweat it if it does not get done. I'll finish mine one of these days maybe.
Okay well banshaku this may make you happy. I finished Concrete Man, but I'm not going to upload it until the other ones I said i'd do are finished. Keep in mind that these are still modeled after the Wii versions of the game, and not the soundtrack, which means of course that these songs have pulse width settings that don't match with the soundtrack..this is intentional, as the Wii version seemed to have a lot of songs that didn't match the soundtrack's settings.
Jewel Man - This one required me to create 10+ instruments, because I don't like tracking at a pattern speed of 01.. I also did not want to upgrade my version of FamiTracker (since I know jsr has gotten "fixed note" to work), because I didn't want to risk corrupting my FTM.
Wily Stage 1, and Wily Castle are also done.
I believe I broke the hihats in the boss theme as well it will give me a reason to work on it.. (I need to record the Wii version anyway and rework it to sound more like it)
I may work on some others, I dunno yet. Who am I kidding? Of course I will..
Okay well banshaku this may make you happy. I finished Concrete Man, but I'm not going to upload it until the other ones I said i'd do are finished.
(I'm commenting on the previous and current message at the same time) I just thought that using my version would have saved you some time to remake the soundtrack (because now you're heading that way!...).
One thing for sure, the drum track that I did for concrete jungle is not based on the soundtrack but recorded from the PS3 version, which is a port of the wii version. So it is more accurate, except for the instrument that I used which still need some tweaking, than the soundtrack. I really, really, really putted a lot of time to find all the notes so I suggest that you use it as a reference, at the least. This way, I won't feel that all my efforts were in vain.
edit:
I just listened to your version of concrete jungle. It's a good start but there is still a lot of work to be done on it I guess (that was a lot faster than me to reach that state!... I'm a beginner after all). A few things seems wrong but I cannot put my finger on it yet (I don't have time to analyze it since I just did a quick listening). Once the ftm is available, I will check. I listened to this song soooo many times and had to repeat it again, and again, an again (because of the drum track) that I know it well in a masochistic sort of way
In the transition before the last part, the place where I changed the speed to 3 to make it simpler and you said that you changed the speed faster for the triplets, there is one extra note for the triangle channel during the triplet. There is 3 time the same notes in a very short amount of time and it's very hard to hear it (unless you slow it down). I know about it because I had to repeat that drum part soooooooooo many times that I cannot forget that hellish part (for a beginner) for timing the notes If you check my ftm, you will know what I mean. It may not be synced properly but I'm sure you can do better than me for that small detail.
edit2:
I checked again and maybe you did put the 3 triangle note after all. It's just so faint that I'm not sure if I'm hearing things or something
edit3:
I'm almost finish to listen the nsf and it's quite impressive what has been done in such a short amount of time. I would have never been able to to that. Good work on that torture session
The PS3 and XBOX360 versions of the song use dfferent pulse widths in the harmony (not the lead)..the soundtrack's recordings are of the ps3/xbox360 version, which also contains a different hihat..
I referenced a recording of the wii version, and I also referenced a recording of the dolphin emulator which has 3 of 4 channels playing back.. the wii did not have those different hihats..in fact, many songs in MM9 are different on Wii than they are on the other consoles. I assure you though, despite the hihats sounding different (since they're modeled after Wii's version) that they are correctly placed.
I changed some octaves in some of the quick scaling notes due to the 2A03's pitch limiitation, just as I did in the S3M. This version even fixes some triangle channel mistakes I made in the S3M.
The tempo causes many problems.. mostly because off odd frames being dropped and skipped. it's hard to keep the song sounding consistent.
I'll do a side-by-side, note-for-note comparison tomorrow..
The PS3 and XBOX360 versions of the song use dfferent pulse widths in the harmony (not the lead)..the soundtrack's recordings are of the ps3/xbox360 version, which also contains a different hihat..
I was not aware of that fact. why would they do that, grrr.. It's now hard to have an accurate version of the song because "how" do you define accurate in that scenario. hmmm.. I never really heard the wii one so I'm quite accustomed to the ps3 version since recently only because it came out last month in japan. Yes, I waited that long to play that game. So I guess out of habit, the ps3 one seems better and, how can I explain it, like it's the real version only because it's the first version I heard.
Did they say anything about why they did that, same thing for the original sound track?
tssf wrote:
I referenced a recording of the wii version, and I also referenced a recording of the dolphin emulator which has 3 of 4 channels playing back.. the wii did not have those different hihats..
I never heard the wii version but it gives some style (the hit hat) ... At the cost of complexity... Those hit hat that fade and come back and more or less different pitch or volume (not sure): hellish for a beginner. I like how it sounds thought. I need to find a way to get a copy of the wii version song then. The emulator for some reason stopped to work properly regarding input so I need to figure out what went wrong with it.
tssf wrote:
in fact, many songs in MM9 are different on Wii than they are on the other consoles. I assure you though, despite the hihats sounding different (since they're modeled after Wii's version) that they are correctly placed.
I'm not doubting you since you seems a perfectionist like me I was not aware of the difference between versions at all. I call blasphemy (if that's the proper use in english in this context, not sure) on this part.
tssf wrote:
I changed some octaves in some of the quick scaling notes due to the 2A03's pitch limiitation, just as I did in the S3M. This version even fixes some triangle channel mistakes I made in the S3M.
For the lowest note that doesn't exist, I putted the real lowest note for the nes and it still sounded ok even thought it was not the real note. It's so fast that you cannot really ear it. I don't know if we're talking about the same thing.
tssf wrote:
The tempo causes many problems.. mostly because off odd frames being dropped and skipped. it's hard to keep the song sounding consistent.
For example, you mean the beginning when the song start for real after the drum section, those 3-4 notes very close? They did sound like something was missing because it was too fast to make them play well. Something felt wrong but didn't know how to correct because of the lack of experience. It looks like that it may not possible to fix it from your comment.
tssf wrote:
I'll do a side-by-side, note-for-note comparison tomorrow..
Hmm.. I don't know how necessary it is now that I know that there is difference between consoles for the song track. The real question is now which one sound better in some situation I guess.
By the way, is it possible that one of the square channel is missing the setting for the duty cycle? (first part after drum when the song really start) Unless this is another thing different with the wii version? If nothing is missing, I think the ps3/sound track sound better in that case.
edit:
I re-read the message and the last comment relate to the first quoted text, didn't realize it because I use different terms (square channel<->pulse, width<->duty cycle doh!). In that case, I feel the the PS3/original sound track sound better. It feels, how can I say, less vibrant on the wii version.
Thanks for the recording of the song. Now I just listened to it before I go to bed and... It feels so different.
I was wondering why people skipped the drums a lot, why they missed this or that (I was playing the PS3 demo). That's because the version they listened was different than mine.
The Wii version is ok but I think that what they did with the ps3/sound track sounds better in general. Maybe I'm biased (like I mentioned before) since it was the first version I heard. It almost feel like the wii version was rushed or something but that cannot be since the PS3 version came out 1 day after. Why would they do such a thing...
hmmm.. Anyway, I will meditate on that while sleeping
Awesome, I saw the start of Maze of Death very cool and thanks for Jewel Man. I dont know if I'll do much of anything on the computer today. I'm in Seattle and it's pretty hot here, about 105 degrees F (thats 40.56 C for those on the metric system).
Have fun dissection Concrete Man and Jewel Man's themes :P
Yep! I can't wait to check how you approached it. This will help to fix my current draft. At least now I'm aware of the difference between wii, ps3/xbox360/cd so I will take that into consideration while checking it.
tssf wrote:
There are 2 songs that are going unfinished until tomorrow..I'm kinda tired of tracking today. :P Lol.
There's no rush, it's a hobby after all You know, when I'm working on my mm9 coding project, I either have to do it during lunch time or after work. But all day I'm coding on different platform and in a multi-language environment (japanese, english, some french). So at the end of the day, or during lunch, it's not always easy to add some code to it since I'm seeing code/languages all day. You have to take breaks some time. Add the family in the middle and you have less time too!
It will take time to make that demo but it's moving forward. I don't have any tools like for example FT for making my game. I have to create everything (except the sound driver) from the ground up so it's slllooowwww. But once I can reach the status where I can make a level playable, if the engine is working well, it could be possible at a later stage to make more levels. In that state, it should be a lot faster to make new levels.
On the first demo, I will use my original concrete jungle (and fix a few things here and there after checking your version and if I have time) because I put a lot of effort in it. If it goes so well and I can make more levels, I will prefer to use what you did since everything will be balanced the same way (volume, instruments etc) and for me that will be important if the game goes that far.
Thanks again for your effort! Your time is appreciated.
Edit:
On second thought, I may use your version of concrete jungle. I almost feel bad to use my own after all the effort you went to remake all those songs.
@tssf:
- Well, I don't own a Wii and... your choice for recreating (again) the soundtrack using the Wii was a "bad" idea to me. As someone said, the soundtrack was based on PS3/X360 version of the game, and with that, I'm unable to analyse the music, since the Wii plays much different. I wonder if such thing is a kind of limitation..?
- I still enjoy your work, it's awesome. Too bad I'm not familiar with Famitracker; yup, I had a twist with Impulse Tracker years ago, by logging SNES music into IT format and then editing in the tracker (fixing the loops or changing the instruments). ^_^;;
Well to be honest, the only real difference is that the Wii sounds (to me, anyway) more NES-like than the others, although the wii is using some sort of interpolation which kind of muffles some of the Square Wave samples (though the lower pitch samples tend to "buzz" which tells me that the samples they used were simply looped improperly)..
Anyway, the only differences i've noticed between the Wii and the soundtrack from comparing them as much as I did is:
-The Soundtrack uses some different pulse width settings on some songs.
-The PS3/XBOX360/Soundtrack version seems recorded to me, which would explain why Rushjet1 said it was. Wii's is definitely playing back in real time using samples.
-It also seems the timer used for playback on the PS3/X360/Soundtrack was a lot faster than the timer in the Wii was. Compare the "super fast" parts in Maze of Death in the Wii version to the Soundtrack. The Wii version doesn't sound as fluent.
-Some of the Hihats in the PS3/X360/ST version are different Than Wii's.. Wii's goes something like: 12 8 4 0 (sounds like a "Tick".. PS3/X360/ST's version goes something like: 12 8 4 0 0 | 2 (sounds like that "tick" sound with an echo..I'm basing this off the recording of Concrete Man from the Xbox version)
-All the note placements are the same (except for a few parts where the notes actually desync in parts, I noticed this when remaking Wily Stage 3/Strange world)
-Overdrive Scramble on the Wii does not have that 2 frame "slide up before sliding down" part in the middle of the song, it simply slides down.. however, I tried to keep it within my FTM, despite 60Hz just not being fast enough
Knowing all of this, it's fairly simple to modify all the songs to work like their PS3/X360/ST counterparts. However.. This is a game DESIGNED to look/feel like an NES game, and basing the music off of a version that's NOT the Nintendo version seems sacrilege to me.
All of that being said, Fx3, I'm not gonna redo the entire soundtrack..just a few songs that didn't sound good in my other MM9NSF I did last year. This version will also work in-game, which is a very good thing I think. I'm also doing this to show other people how Mega Man music could work in FamiTracker.
Anyway, working on Maze of Death now. Coincidentally, the song may actually kill me. It's significantly harder to do in FamiTracker.
- I wouldn't say the X360/PS3 versions use recorded music. Perhaps not exactly a good reason to justify it, but the sound effects "cancel" the playback of a certain sound channel. It's unlike the PSOne/Gamecube/PS2 versions of Rockman Complete Works (Mega Man Anniversary Collection), which you listen clearly that the sound effects play independently of the music (recorded).
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