TSSF, in the words of Jim Carrey from Dumb and Dumber, "Don't you go dying on me." I am just an 8 bit enthusiast so I like to try and re-create any game music that sounds good to me. Mega Man just happens to be one of the best games from that era (music and game play wise). Right now you have done more than enough to help me in my quest to re-create the most accurate MM music of all styles. So thank you in advance for doing what you're doing.
-Some of the Hihats in the PS3/X360/ST version are different Than Wii's.. Wii's goes something like: 12 8 4 0 (sounds like a "Tick".. PS3/X360/ST's version goes something like: 12 8 4 0 0 | 2 (sounds like that "tick" sound with an echo..I'm basing this off the recording of Concrete Man from the Xbox version)
Don't make me remember that part..
tssf wrote:
Knowing all of this, it's fairly simple to modify all the songs to work like their PS3/X360/ST counterparts. However.. This is a game DESIGNED to look/feel like an NES game, and basing the music off of a version that's NOT the Nintendo version seems sacrilege to me.
I will go even more far than that: the fact that it's not on the nes is a sacrilege to me I will feel better once I have a level running on the real thing.
tssf wrote:
All of that being said, Fx3, I'm not gonna redo the entire soundtrack..
You're almost there thought! Just teasing you
tssf wrote:
This version will also work in-game, which is a very good thing I think.
And I'm very grateful about it. Thanks again.
tssf wrote:
Anyway, working on Maze of Death now. Coincidentally, the song may actually kill me. It's significantly harder to do in FamiTracker.
Take it easy, you don't have to rush it. Just take a break and continue it later (or you don't have too if you're too tired).
Just don't use any current FTM verions as the "final version".. I'm constantly modifying most of the music to be more accurate every day.
just today, that snare sound used in the boss theme, concrete man, wily stage 2 and 3, I redesigned it to sound more like the real instrument. Since I couldn't find any Megaman 1-6 sound that sounded similar to it (though 6 used one that comes close), I took the one from Concrete Man Wii (the emulated version), recorded it as clearly as I could, converted the measurement of time in the sampling software to "frames", so now I know that instrument is 10 frames long, and I know it "snaps" and fades, so now I have a snare sound that sounds more like the original every day.
Anyway, I didn't work on Maze of Death today, but I anticipate working on it tomorrow. I may do the whole soundtrack, I did just realize I remade like 70% of the soundtrack..and it's not like the remaining songs are really that hard to do, the tough ones are already done. Heh.
Besides banshaku, even if you don't make the levels, you can still have a music player in the game playing some music with a caption saying, "Want to play more? Buy Megaman 9, available on Wii/Xbox360/PS3 today!!"
tallboyy: I'll go slow. I'm glad this is helping you learn how to make megaman style music, if anything it will show people my tracking techniques when it comes to Megaman music. I may even through a song from the old days in there just for fun, too.
EDIT: So I just looked over the waveform from the Wii version. Looks like the Wii's USING the PS3/X360 hihat in some places, namely ..Concrete.. I'll add an instrument in and use it when appropriate.
Just don't use any current FTM verions as the "final version".. I'm constantly modifying most of the music to be more accurate every day.
I think by the time I finish my first level... you will have had enough time to make the sound track twice It's that long to create that %$#%$# game engine. Mega man is not an easy feast. I'm learning a lot thought. My real game will benefit a lot from trying to reproduce this game demo, like my tracking experience improved by trying to reproduce your s3m. It's a win/win situation but a very long road.
tssf wrote:
I may do the whole soundtrack, I did just realize I remade like 70% of the soundtrack..
That's where came my teasing comment from previous messages
tssf wrote:
Besides banshaku, even if you don't make the levels, you can still have a music player in the game playing some music with a caption saying, "Want to play more? Buy Megaman 9, available on Wii/Xbox360/PS3 today!!"
That's a good idea. I could put a sound test menu and put that message.
tssf wrote:
EDIT: So I just looked over the waveform from the Wii version. Looks like the Wii's USING the PS3/X360 hihat in some places, namely ..Concrete.. I'll add an instrument in and use it when appropriate.
... Concrete jungle no jigoku e, youkoso! (translation: welcome to concrete jungle hell!..)
I'm doing some MAJORLY advanced pattern skipping in this.. (to save memory of course)..and apparently FamiTracker 3.0 HATES what I'm doing..so much so that it actually screws EVERYTHING UP, even though everything I'm doing is completely legal in terms of how the tracker's supposed to work.
All in all, FamiTracker plays it better than the NSF (although FamiTracker doesn't seem fast enough to even PLAY it). ..The NSF has better timing playback, until of course..the NSF explodes from complete Dxx glitchiness..
It's fixable to work around the Dxx glitches, however, I don't want to chagne it, as the Dxx commands are there to save memory. Before it can be exported to NSF / game, the glitches will have to be fixed. :/
Anyway.. I can't believe I remade this crazy song twice. Perhaps i'll do more songs tomorrow. We'll see.
I've maxed out my instrument count, too. Oy. Most instruments are simply there to compensate for commands that FamiTracker lack, or haven't been implemented yet (like Note Cut on Frame, and the fixed note effect for Jewel Man's theme)
I would love to optimize the hell out of this mod, I'm sure there's tons of things I could optimize too..however, doing so would require WAY more work than I'm willing to do. Maybe in the future if a few optimization tools are released (like re-sortable instruments, auto-remove unused macros, and resort macros, etc)..
Anyway..check out the first post for the mod zipped. (I also added an "invalid command" sound effect, but that's not that big a deal :P)
. ..The NSF has better timing playback, until of course..the NSF explodes from complete Dxx glitchiness..
Can you tell me exactly in which frame and row causes the bug? I may try to investigate the driver myself to see what is the cause. I would like to have (but don't have to) that song in my project for the special thanks/credit screen. I don't promise to fix (driver) it but I can try to check it. I need to modify a few things in the driver/player export routine for my current project so I can see what I can do.
tssf wrote:
I've maxed out my instrument count, too. Oy. Most instruments are simply there to compensate for commands that FamiTracker lack, or haven't been implemented yet (like Note Cut on Frame, and the fixed note effect for Jewel Man's theme)
I'm a little bit concerned about that statement. How much space will take all those instruments... Right now, you cannot just export the binary file when you have multi-song, FT fail (2.9) and even if it didn't, I cannot use one big binary blob since I need to separate so I can put it in myself in specific banks. The simple way that requires no modification to the driver/FT is to export songs one by one in 1 file, export the bin. The issue with this is all instruments will be with each song. hmmm..
Now that you had to use that much instrument, the better way will be to modify FT export method to export the instrument binary data and each song separately. Then, you have to modify the driver to take that into account. I asked some question to Jsr about what to be careful when doing this but no answer yet. I guess he must be busy at the moment.
tssf wrote:
I would love to optimize the hell out of this mod, I'm sure there's tons of things I could optimize too..however, doing so would require WAY more work than I'm willing to do. Maybe in the future if a few optimization tools are released (like re-sortable instruments, auto-remove unused macros, and resort macros, etc)..
If it becomes a requirement for my game, I can always investigate the FT code and see how I can add it. For now, since my time is quite limited for my hobby, unless I really need it I may not try it since I really don't know FT code base at all.
Great work so far on the song, I will be more than happy to use them in my project. Now back to define my sprites and coding..
@tssf:
- For the title screen track, how are you handling the sequential square play? Wouldn't it sound better if you apply an echo effect there, much like track 1 (Capcom logo), but shorter?
I'm hoping the Dxx command will be fixed in the next version of FamiTracker. Also, Note Cut is implemented, and fixed note will be implemented as well, so that alone will help me optimize the hell out of the mod. If you're planning on making tools to help optimize it as well, that will be cool. That should significantly reduce the amount of instruments used.
We'll see. I can't tell you the Dxx values as I'm at work right now, but check out the FTM. The one causing the biggest problems is D54 I believe.
Fx3:
The title music uses MM3's composing style. My S3M used MM2's, so the echoes sounded better.. The sad fact is, the original Wii version retriggers the notes without volume changes.. The NES sound chip cannot do this, as it would come out as one long note (however the gameboy sound chip can..weird). I've learned a trick to simulate it by switching back and forth between pulse settings 1 and 3, however, the title theme uses a pulse setting of 0 so it's not easily done. .. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out to be honest, all things considered. It's not exact but it's accurate with how the song is designed, and that's what I'm going for
I was looking back at some of the earlier reply's in the forum here and I am just now understanding. I was using version 2.9 to make my FTMs. Is 2.9 version's timing slightly different than 3.0? When mixing MM2 and MM3 styles (note cut in the SQ channels) it does not sound off to me but that is version 2.9. When I run the same FTM in 3.0 it does jump. I didn't like using 3.0 because it would mess up the timing of some of my previously made FTM's, like Crash Man for example. When I have a Square channel with the same note repeated twice I would use a zero in the instrument channel, this trick does not work in version 3.0. Why is that exactly, what changed?
Edit: I notice that the jumping goes away in 3.0 if I mute one or more of the channels in the FTM and it does not not show up in the NSF when exported.
Yeah actually it's the same withjewel man. if you soo hannel 1 the little blip parts play perfecly. if you unmte all channels only some play.
I also noticed this when reating csound effects at speed 01. Pattern speed and display routines could hae something t do with it as the timing is much better when the pattern speed is slower.
I'm hoping the Dxx command will be fixed in the next version of FamiTracker. Also, Note Cut is implemented, and fixed note will be implemented as well, so that alone will help me optimize the hell out of the mod. If you're planning on making tools to help optimize it as well, that will be cool. That should significantly reduce the amount of instruments used.
For the Dxx error, Jsr seems to be aware of the problem. It doesn't work always well with values other than 0. So since he knows about it, I will let him check first.
For the tools, I will see. I first need to modify the export to binary option to suit my needs. After that, if it does goes well, I can see what I can do.
- About the same volume issue with square channels, I just remembered of SMB3 - when you finishes a level, the game adds the remaining time seconds into your score. The sound volume is the same, but the duty cycle counter is reset on 4003/4007 write, making the trick ok (you listen a "prr" sound instead). So, perhaps it's possible to do such thing..?
I'm hoping that jsr will add in that little suggestion I made..instead of having a note cut on frame effect, to have a note volume on frame effect instead. Same idea, different function that can do the same thing. If that function can be added, I could axe a good 60% of my instruments.
In the mean time, I've been overlooking the title and how the echoes are done via a recording of the Wii version, and I can see how it's performed.. Although the registers may reset themselves, the audible difference won't be heard.. don't worry though, I've still got some tricks up my sleeve to make the title sound better. I'll work on it in a bit.
More or less related to this thread, I decided to send an email to Init Creates (in broken japanese but still..) as to why the Wii and [ps3/xbox360/soundtrack] soundtrack of mega man 9 are different. We will see if they answer their fans or not
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.. PS3/X360/ST's version goes something like: 12 8 4 0 0 | 2 (sounds like that "tick" sound with an echo..I'm basing this off the recording of Concrete Man from the Xbox version)
