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FamiTracker > General > Bug Reports & Feature Requests > Support for raw 7-bit PCM Owner: drdevilfx New post
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Support for raw 7-bit PCM Posted: 2013-12-31 11:42 Reply | Quote
drdevilfx

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#53330
I don't know much about the NES's PCM, besides from the fact it was used in Battletoads' famous pause music. What channel does the PCM play through?

If Famitracker supported PCM on both the 2A03 chip and the MMC5 chip, we could use higher quality voices and samples in our compositions, which would be good.



Posted: 2013-12-31 17:47 Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#53337
It plays through the DMC by using 100% of the CPU to update the sample position.

This wasn't done by many games because it uses 100% of the CPU. This is why Battletoads only uses PCM during pauses.

The NSF format was not really designed to support this kind of thing, but there are some demoscene hacks that do play PCM through NSF.

The feature has been requested many times before, its inclusion in Famitracker remains dubious.

The MMC5's PCM support is pretty much useless. It's the same deal as with the 2A03, where you need to give the CPU entirely over to the sound to make use of it. It's also not supported by most NSF players, since it was never used for music, and only used in one game to play short voice samples.

Posted: 2013-12-31 17:57 Reply | Quote
drdevilfx

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#53338
rainwarrior wrote:
It plays through the DMC by using 100% of the CPU to update the sample position.

This wasn't done by many games because it uses 100% of the CPU. This is why Battletoads only uses PCM during pauses.

The NSF format was not really designed to support this kind of thing, but there are some demoscene hacks that do play PCM through NSF.

The feature has been requested many times before, its inclusion in Famitracker remains dubious.

The MMC5's PCM support is pretty much useless. It's the same deal as with the 2A03, where you need to give the CPU entirely over to the sound to make use of it. It's also not supported by most NSF players, since it was never used for music, and only used in one game to play short voice samples.


Thanks, now I understand NES PCM more now.

Posted: 2013-12-31 18:06 Reply | Quote
MKSTAR26

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#53341
Wait, the MMC5 had a PCM channel?

Posted: 2013-12-31 18:57 Reply | Quote
Im_a_Track_Man

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#53346
Yes, and it was 8 rather that 7-bit.

Posted: 2013-12-31 19:34 Reply | Quote
drdevilfx

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#53348
rainwarrior wrote:
It plays through the DMC by using 100% of the CPU to update the sample position.

This wasn't done by many games because it uses 100% of the CPU. This is why Battletoads only uses PCM during pauses.

The NSF format was not really designed to support this kind of thing, but there are some demoscene hacks that do play PCM through NSF.

The feature has been requested many times before, its inclusion in Famitracker remains dubious.

The MMC5's PCM support is pretty much useless. It's the same deal as with the 2A03, where you need to give the CPU entirely over to the sound to make use of it. It's also not supported by most NSF players, since it was never used for music, and only used in one game to play short voice samples.


If the MMC5's PCM channel is 8-bit, would it make it superior to the 2A03's 7-bit PCM?

Posted: 2013-12-31 20:27 Reply | Quote
jrlepage
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#53351
The difference isn't really noticeable in any way.

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Posted: 2014-01-01 03:39 Reply | Quote
rainwarrior

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#53368
The difference is 0.78% less distortion due to quantization. (Probably not enough to notice in most cases.)

Posted: 2014-01-01 12:34 Reply | Quote
bd2000

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#53377
If you want a tracker that supports raw PCM channel, try DefleMask.

It's a tracker for multiple systems, including the NES.

I think the difference between FamiTracker and DefleMask is that FamiTracker uses DPCM while DefleMask uses raw PCM.

But this tracker may take some time to get used to, though.

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Posted: 2014-01-01 16:07  (Last Edited: 2014-01-01 16:07) Reply | Quote
Dwedit

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#53383
SuperNSF is a multichannel MOD player for the NES, try that! You make .IT files using Modplug Tracker and convert them to NSF using that tool.

Posted: 2014-01-01 19:06 Reply | Quote
cak

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#53393
Don't forget Musetracker, that's a good one (though the frame rate is slightly slower than NTSC).

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Posted: 2014-01-01 21:36 Reply | Quote
SoltIW



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#53396
bd2000 wrote:
But this tracker may take some time to get used to, though.


understatement of the century.

But, yes, use deflemask. The UI can be slightly counter-intuitive at times (since submenus hide their supermenu, and you can't see the instruments and patters at the same time, and the instrument editor covers up either your first 3 channels or your last 3 channels, and you can never see the last pattern or next pattern), and it's swamped full of bugs and pieces being written in a way that makes small changes to the code entirely break the tracker at time, but it's a good tracker.

Posted: 2014-01-01 23:24 Reply | Quote
jsr
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#53407
Yeah this has been asked many times before and no there are no plans for adding PCM support. There are lots of options if you want to write NES music with PCM though.

drdevilfx wrote:
If the MMC5's PCM channel is 8-bit, would it make it superior to the 2A03's 7-bit PCM?

Each bit adds 6 dB to the SNR in a PCM system, but it probably doesn't make much difference in this case.

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Posted: 2014-01-01 23:49 Reply | Quote
drdevilfx

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#53410
jsr wrote:
Yeah this has been asked many times before and no there are no plans for adding PCM support. There are lots of options if you want to write NES music with PCM though.

drdevilfx wrote:
If the MMC5's PCM channel is 8-bit, would it make it superior to the 2A03's 7-bit PCM?

Each bit adds 6 dB to the SNR in a PCM system, but it probably doesn't make much difference in this case.


Thanks.

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